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TOPIC: Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit)

Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374408

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CMA TIME wrote: Yeah Fan2, he had some nice games in out of conf.

Now lets talk about in conf.
He had one good game vs SHU: 16pnts, 8boards, 1blk in 25 minutes

Now lets see the next 7 games:
He logged 86minutes -alittle over 12per game, 14boards -2 per game, 4blck, and 12pnts -Almost 2per game.

He's a SOPHOMORE. Guys tend to get better as they get older and get coached up, and big men are notorious for developing slowly.

CMA TIME wrote: I guess CMA doesn't like what he sees either if Roberts is only play 12min per game.

That's actually a fair point to a degree. However, most coaches tighten their rotation in conference play so it's not a big surprise that a developing big would see his minutes reduced a little at that point in the season. In addition, his minutes are going to be skewed but the short roster we played with waiting for Dunn and Steere to become eligible as well as the time Heron missed with his injury.

CMA TIME wrote: Rand got 10blcks in a game, yeah I know that's only juco, but that's impressive at any level in a game.

My neighbors kid had 15 blocks last week and 55 points, but he's 6 and he was playing nerf hoops against 5 year olds. You still want Rand?

CMA TIME wrote: Maybe that equals to 3/4 blcks at div I?

And Maybe it doesn't. You want to get rid of a kid who's as athletic as they come AND who has blossomed under what...7.5 months with this staff? All for a "maybe"?

CMA TIME wrote: You don't know who he wants to keep, neither do I.

Right. We don't. But you don't have to be a genius to look at the family atmosphere that CMA and his program preach to understand that he's not looking at these kids as replaceable commodities. If they buy into him, he buys into them...or so it seems based on his career.

CMA TIME wrote: I just hope he gets ore talented players, my opinion.
You could choose to keep lesser players, because their great kids. Kudos to you on that.


I must have typed 4 responses to this and deleted them all. I'm trying not to be insulting, but you and I have a VERY different view of this universe. Very different.

CMA TIME wrote: Who's to say Rand & Pinckney aren't great kids.

Who's to say they are?? Are you actually going to suggest that you push out a very talented sophomore bigman who wants to be here (assuming he does) and who has "bled" for this coach merely for a roll of the dice in a similar athlete just because he had big stats in a JUCO game?

You do realize how inaccurate JUCO stats are...don't you? Jesus, you didn't even see the game.

CMA TIME wrote: Just give me the best chance to win, to me that's with more talented players.


Go root for Kentucky then. You'll get the best recruits every year.

I think this is simple. You make a commitment to a kid and he makes a commitment to your system, you honor it. PERIOD.

Sure, if a guy is in over his head or he stops doing the work required to be on the court, then you have a heart to heart conversation and part ways. What has Roberts done to warrant being pushed out the door?

Do yourself a favor and go compare Roberts #'s in year 2 to those of Tariq Owens. Then ask yourself if you'd sign up for Tariq Owens JR&SR year type production from any big the next two years.
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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374412

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People selling Roberts short. Kid is an amazing athlete who had almost no coaching last year. He’s giving us solid numbers and I still think is only scratching the surface of his potential. He’s got a ton of room to grow and I think he will. Jettison this kid? Crazy talk. Kid has raw talent and will get more polisihed in his junior and senior seasons.
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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374419

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SJUFAN2 wrote:

CMA TIME wrote: Yeah Fan2, he had some nice games in out of conf.

Now lets talk about in conf.
He had one good game vs SHU: 16pnts, 8boards, 1blk in 25 minutes

Now lets see the next 7 games:
He logged 86minutes -alittle over 12per game, 14boards -2 per game, 4blck, and 12pnts -Almost 2per game.

He's a SOPHOMORE. Guys tend to get better as they get older and get coached up, and big men are notorious for developing slowly.

CMA TIME wrote: I guess CMA doesn't like what he sees either if Roberts is only play 12min per game.

That's actually a fair point to a degree. However, most coaches tighten their rotation in conference play so it's not a big surprise that a developing big would see his minutes reduced a little at that point in the season. In addition, his minutes are going to be skewed but the short roster we played with waiting for Dunn and Steere to become eligible as well as the time Heron missed with his injury.

CMA TIME wrote: Rand got 10blcks in a game, yeah I know that's only juco, but that's impressive at any level in a game.

My neighbors kid had 15 blocks last week and 55 points, but he's 6 and he was playing nerf hoops against 5 year olds. You still want Rand?

CMA TIME wrote: Maybe that equals to 3/4 blcks at div I?

And Maybe it doesn't. You want to get rid of a kid who's as athletic as they come AND who has blossomed under what...7.5 months with this staff? All for a "maybe"?

CMA TIME wrote: You don't know who he wants to keep, neither do I.

Right. We don't. But you don't have to be a genius to look at the family atmosphere that CMA and his program preach to understand that he's not looking at these kids as replaceable commodities. If they buy into him, he buys into them...or so it seems based on his career.

CMA TIME wrote: I just hope he gets ore talented players, my opinion.
You could choose to keep lesser players, because their great kids. Kudos to you on that.


I must have typed 4 responses to this and deleted them all. I'm trying not to be insulting, but you and I have a VERY different view of this universe. Very different.

CMA TIME wrote: Who's to say Rand & Pinckney aren't great kids.

Who's to say they are?? Are you actually going to suggest that you push out a very talented sophomore bigman who wants to be here (assuming he does) and who has "bled" for this coach merely for a roll of the dice in a similar athlete just because he had big stats in a JUCO game?

You do realize how inaccurate JUCO stats are...don't you? Jesus, you didn't even see the game.

CMA TIME wrote: Just give me the best chance to win, to me that's with more talented players.


Go root for Kentucky then. You'll get the best recruits every year.

I think this is simple. You make a commitment to a kid and he makes a commitment to your system, you honor it. PERIOD.

Sure, if a guy is in over his head or he stops doing the work required to be on the court, then you have a heart to heart conversation and part ways. What has Roberts done to warrant being pushed out the door?

Do yourself a favor and go compare Roberts #'s in year 2 to those of Tariq Owens. Then ask yourself if you'd sign up for Tariq Owens JR&SR year type production from any big the next two years.


I'll give you Owens #s in his first 8 in league play:
161 min -20.1 per, 40boards -5boards per, 15blcks -1 less then 2 per, 45pnts - over 5pnts per.

If Josh had those #s, you take that.
Still has 2 months to go, gotta show something, and no dumb fouls.
See in the 2nd half, Josh had 2 fouls in the first minute, they showed a closeup of cma.
He looked real pissed. He came out, and never seen him again.

Just saying, Josh needs to show something.

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374421

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CMA TIME wrote:

SJUFAN2 wrote:

CMA TIME wrote: Yeah Fan2, he had some nice games in out of conf.

Now lets talk about in conf.
He had one good game vs SHU: 16pnts, 8boards, 1blk in 25 minutes

Now lets see the next 7 games:
He logged 86minutes -alittle over 12per game, 14boards -2 per game, 4blck, and 12pnts -Almost 2per game.

He's a SOPHOMORE. Guys tend to get better as they get older and get coached up, and big men are notorious for developing slowly.

CMA TIME wrote: I guess CMA doesn't like what he sees either if Roberts is only play 12min per game.

That's actually a fair point to a degree. However, most coaches tighten their rotation in conference play so it's not a big surprise that a developing big would see his minutes reduced a little at that point in the season. In addition, his minutes are going to be skewed but the short roster we played with waiting for Dunn and Steere to become eligible as well as the time Heron missed with his injury.

CMA TIME wrote: Rand got 10blcks in a game, yeah I know that's only juco, but that's impressive at any level in a game.

My neighbors kid had 15 blocks last week and 55 points, but he's 6 and he was playing nerf hoops against 5 year olds. You still want Rand?

CMA TIME wrote: Maybe that equals to 3/4 blcks at div I?

And Maybe it doesn't. You want to get rid of a kid who's as athletic as they come AND who has blossomed under what...7.5 months with this staff? All for a "maybe"?

CMA TIME wrote: You don't know who he wants to keep, neither do I.

Right. We don't. But you don't have to be a genius to look at the family atmosphere that CMA and his program preach to understand that he's not looking at these kids as replaceable commodities. If they buy into him, he buys into them...or so it seems based on his career.

CMA TIME wrote: I just hope he gets ore talented players, my opinion.
You could choose to keep lesser players, because their great kids. Kudos to you on that.


I must have typed 4 responses to this and deleted them all. I'm trying not to be insulting, but you and I have a VERY different view of this universe. Very different.

CMA TIME wrote: Who's to say Rand & Pinckney aren't great kids.

Who's to say they are?? Are you actually going to suggest that you push out a very talented sophomore bigman who wants to be here (assuming he does) and who has "bled" for this coach merely for a roll of the dice in a similar athlete just because he had big stats in a JUCO game?

You do realize how inaccurate JUCO stats are...don't you? Jesus, you didn't even see the game.

CMA TIME wrote: Just give me the best chance to win, to me that's with more talented players.


Go root for Kentucky then. You'll get the best recruits every year.

I think this is simple. You make a commitment to a kid and he makes a commitment to your system, you honor it. PERIOD.

Sure, if a guy is in over his head or he stops doing the work required to be on the court, then you have a heart to heart conversation and part ways. What has Roberts done to warrant being pushed out the door?

Do yourself a favor and go compare Roberts #'s in year 2 to those of Tariq Owens. Then ask yourself if you'd sign up for Tariq Owens JR&SR year type production from any big the next two years.


I'll give you Owens #s in his first 8 in league play:
161 min -20.1 per, 40boards -5boards per, 15blcks -1 less then 2 per, 45pnts - over 5pnts per.

If Josh had those #s, you take that.
Still has 2 months to go, gotta show something, and no dumb fouls.
See in the 2nd half, Josh had 2 fouls in the first minute, they showed a closeup of cma.
He looked real pissed. He came out, and never seen him again.

Just saying, Josh needs to show something.

Owens also had to sit a year for transferring so his second year would actually be like Josh in year 3

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374423

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richard A Steinfeld wrote: Unfortunately for him he will have to sit another year , and will probably loose a year of eligibility because don’t you get 5 years to play 4 ? Will agree in limited playing time, he didn’t look good.


He won't lose a season because he didn't actually sit out a season, he sat out parts of two seasons. He'll have two seasons left for the low major that he should transfer to, because he'll be able to have an impact without trying as hard as he should be trying.

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374425

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mjmaherjr wrote:

CMA TIME wrote:

SJUFAN2 wrote:

CMA TIME wrote: Yeah Fan2, he had some nice games in out of conf.

Now lets talk about in conf.
He had one good game vs SHU: 16pnts, 8boards, 1blk in 25 minutes

Now lets see the next 7 games:
He logged 86minutes -alittle over 12per game, 14boards -2 per game, 4blck, and 12pnts -Almost 2per game.

He's a SOPHOMORE. Guys tend to get better as they get older and get coached up, and big men are notorious for developing slowly.

CMA TIME wrote: I guess CMA doesn't like what he sees either if Roberts is only play 12min per game.

That's actually a fair point to a degree. However, most coaches tighten their rotation in conference play so it's not a big surprise that a developing big would see his minutes reduced a little at that point in the season. In addition, his minutes are going to be skewed but the short roster we played with waiting for Dunn and Steere to become eligible as well as the time Heron missed with his injury.

CMA TIME wrote: Rand got 10blcks in a game, yeah I know that's only juco, but that's impressive at any level in a game.

My neighbors kid had 15 blocks last week and 55 points, but he's 6 and he was playing nerf hoops against 5 year olds. You still want Rand?

CMA TIME wrote: Maybe that equals to 3/4 blcks at div I?

And Maybe it doesn't. You want to get rid of a kid who's as athletic as they come AND who has blossomed under what...7.5 months with this staff? All for a "maybe"?

CMA TIME wrote: You don't know who he wants to keep, neither do I.

Right. We don't. But you don't have to be a genius to look at the family atmosphere that CMA and his program preach to understand that he's not looking at these kids as replaceable commodities. If they buy into him, he buys into them...or so it seems based on his career.

CMA TIME wrote: I just hope he gets ore talented players, my opinion.
You could choose to keep lesser players, because their great kids. Kudos to you on that.


I must have typed 4 responses to this and deleted them all. I'm trying not to be insulting, but you and I have a VERY different view of this universe. Very different.

CMA TIME wrote: Who's to say Rand & Pinckney aren't great kids.

Who's to say they are?? Are you actually going to suggest that you push out a very talented sophomore bigman who wants to be here (assuming he does) and who has "bled" for this coach merely for a roll of the dice in a similar athlete just because he had big stats in a JUCO game?

You do realize how inaccurate JUCO stats are...don't you? Jesus, you didn't even see the game.

CMA TIME wrote: Just give me the best chance to win, to me that's with more talented players.


Go root for Kentucky then. You'll get the best recruits every year.

I think this is simple. You make a commitment to a kid and he makes a commitment to your system, you honor it. PERIOD.

Sure, if a guy is in over his head or he stops doing the work required to be on the court, then you have a heart to heart conversation and part ways. What has Roberts done to warrant being pushed out the door?

Do yourself a favor and go compare Roberts #'s in year 2 to those of Tariq Owens. Then ask yourself if you'd sign up for Tariq Owens JR&SR year type production from any big the next two years.


I'll give you Owens #s in his first 8 in league play:
161 min -20.1 per, 40boards -5boards per, 15blcks -1 less then 2 per, 45pnts - over 5pnts per.

If Josh had those #s, you take that.
Still has 2 months to go, gotta show something, and no dumb fouls.
See in the 2nd half, Josh had 2 fouls in the first minute, they showed a closeup of cma.
He looked real pissed. He came out, and never seen him again.

Just saying, Josh needs to show something.

Owens also had to sit a year for transferring so his second year would actually be like Josh in year 3


But Owens never got experience the year that he sat.
Unless you're saying he bulked alot during his transfer year and matured.

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374427

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CMA TIME wrote:

mjmaherjr wrote:

CMA TIME wrote:

SJUFAN2 wrote:

CMA TIME wrote: Yeah Fan2, he had some nice games in out of conf.

Now lets talk about in conf.
He had one good game vs SHU: 16pnts, 8boards, 1blk in 25 minutes

Now lets see the next 7 games:
He logged 86minutes -alittle over 12per game, 14boards -2 per game, 4blck, and 12pnts -Almost 2per game.

He's a SOPHOMORE. Guys tend to get better as they get older and get coached up, and big men are notorious for developing slowly.

CMA TIME wrote: I guess CMA doesn't like what he sees either if Roberts is only play 12min per game.

That's actually a fair point to a degree. However, most coaches tighten their rotation in conference play so it's not a big surprise that a developing big would see his minutes reduced a little at that point in the season. In addition, his minutes are going to be skewed but the short roster we played with waiting for Dunn and Steere to become eligible as well as the time Heron missed with his injury.

CMA TIME wrote: Rand got 10blcks in a game, yeah I know that's only juco, but that's impressive at any level in a game.

My neighbors kid had 15 blocks last week and 55 points, but he's 6 and he was playing nerf hoops against 5 year olds. You still want Rand?

CMA TIME wrote: Maybe that equals to 3/4 blcks at div I?

And Maybe it doesn't. You want to get rid of a kid who's as athletic as they come AND who has blossomed under what...7.5 months with this staff? All for a "maybe"?

CMA TIME wrote: You don't know who he wants to keep, neither do I.

Right. We don't. But you don't have to be a genius to look at the family atmosphere that CMA and his program preach to understand that he's not looking at these kids as replaceable commodities. If they buy into him, he buys into them...or so it seems based on his career.

CMA TIME wrote: I just hope he gets ore talented players, my opinion.
You could choose to keep lesser players, because their great kids. Kudos to you on that.


I must have typed 4 responses to this and deleted them all. I'm trying not to be insulting, but you and I have a VERY different view of this universe. Very different.

CMA TIME wrote: Who's to say Rand & Pinckney aren't great kids.

Who's to say they are?? Are you actually going to suggest that you push out a very talented sophomore bigman who wants to be here (assuming he does) and who has "bled" for this coach merely for a roll of the dice in a similar athlete just because he had big stats in a JUCO game?

You do realize how inaccurate JUCO stats are...don't you? Jesus, you didn't even see the game.

CMA TIME wrote: Just give me the best chance to win, to me that's with more talented players.


Go root for Kentucky then. You'll get the best recruits every year.

I think this is simple. You make a commitment to a kid and he makes a commitment to your system, you honor it. PERIOD.

Sure, if a guy is in over his head or he stops doing the work required to be on the court, then you have a heart to heart conversation and part ways. What has Roberts done to warrant being pushed out the door?

Do yourself a favor and go compare Roberts #'s in year 2 to those of Tariq Owens. Then ask yourself if you'd sign up for Tariq Owens JR&SR year type production from any big the next two years.


I'll give you Owens #s in his first 8 in league play:
161 min -20.1 per, 40boards -5boards per, 15blcks -1 less then 2 per, 45pnts - over 5pnts per.

If Josh had those #s, you take that.
Still has 2 months to go, gotta show something, and no dumb fouls.
See in the 2nd half, Josh had 2 fouls in the first minute, they showed a closeup of cma.
He looked real pissed. He came out, and never seen him again.

Just saying, Josh needs to show something.

Owens also had to sit a year for transferring so his second year would actually be like Josh in year 3


But Owens never got experience the year that he sat.
Unless you're saying he bulked alot during his transfer year and matured.

Sometimes a year sitting is better experience wise than burning a season playing

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374428

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CMA TIME wrote: And it's great that Roberts is a great kid, but sports (basketball, football ect) is about competition, you need the more promising kid to succeed. That might sound harsh but it's just the nature of the beast.
Elite schools like uk get 5-7 5 stars, but we gotta settle for lesser talent because their great kids?
Well Rand and Pinckney might be great kids as well.

What I want is 10 talented kids, when 5 subs come in we lose nothing with the starters coming out.
Who knows, maybe we can get both of them, and still keep Roberts as the 8th man off the bench. Hope he's happy with 8-10 per game.

If you really want to be elite then you need to think big, and truthfully it does suck, you don't want to hurt a kid but you also got to be the best you can be, and the more talented kids, the better.


I think it's very unlikely that Roberts transfers out or is asked to transfer out. As others has said he's made huge leaps and has shown flashes of being a productive player. He's only a sophomore and staff has been very complimentary of his attitude and willingness to learn and get better. I do agree with you that he has struggled lately, but he's shown enough to be considered a positive moving forward, at worst case he's good enough to be the 10th or 11th man in the rotation next year.

IMO, just looking at the situation right now, I'd say these are the most likely transfers/early departures.

1. Ian Steere - He's completely out of the rotation right now, looks visible unhappy, CMA seems to be unhappy with the effort he's given, and Steere has been known to move around a lot. Unless something drastically changes he looks like the most likely to transfer out.

2. LJ Figuera - Been a lot of speculation that he leaves early for the pros, he's already a red-shirt junior, if he continues to have a good year, he's probably at least expected to test the waters and see if he can at least be in the mix for a 2-way contract.

3. David Caraher - System seems to be a bad fit for him, his numbers are getting worse and playing time is going down every game. Hard to see him making the rotation next year with better guards coming in. I seen Paultzman mention that he could be close to having enough credits to graduate, if that's the case, I could see him looking to go play in a system that's better fit for him.

4. Jon McGriff - He's currently using a medial redshirt. With Posh and Dunn probably commanding most of the PG minutes next year, if he's not fully healthy or staff feels like he won't be able to compete for minutes, I could see him transferring out to a mid-major, in his situation he'd almost be guaranteed to get immediate eligibility at his next stop.

Everyone else I just can't see transferring. Sears would probably be next on the list, but he'd be a senior and his scholarship would open up the following year, so I don't see the staff asking him to leave, he seems happy with his role always energetic and never complaining, he's battled injuries, so I think he knows he's a guy that's never going to play a whole lot of minutes at the D1 level. I see him as probably the 12th or 13th man in rotation next year.

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374429

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Making Plays wrote:

CMA TIME wrote: And it's great that Roberts is a great kid, but sports (basketball, football ect) is about competition, you need the more promising kid to succeed. That might sound harsh but it's just the nature of the beast.
Elite schools like uk get 5-7 5 stars, but we gotta settle for lesser talent because their great kids?
Well Rand and Pinckney might be great kids as well.

What I want is 10 talented kids, when 5 subs come in we lose nothing with the starters coming out.
Who knows, maybe we can get both of them, and still keep Roberts as the 8th man off the bench. Hope he's happy with 8-10 per game.

If you really want to be elite then you need to think big, and truthfully it does suck, you don't want to hurt a kid but you also got to be the best you can be, and the more talented kids, the better.


I think it's very unlikely that Roberts transfers out or is asked to transfer out. As others has said he's made huge leaps and has shown flashes of being a productive player. He's only a sophomore and staff has been very complimentary of his attitude and willingness to learn and get better. I do agree with you that he has struggled lately, but he's shown enough to be considered a positive moving forward, at worst case he's good enough to be the 10th or 11th man in the rotation next year.

IMO, just looking at the situation right now, I'd say these are the most likely transfers/early departures.

1. Ian Steere - He's completely out of the rotation right now, looks visible unhappy, CMA seems to be unhappy with the effort he's given, and Steere has been known to move around a lot. Unless something drastically changes he looks like the most likely to transfer out.

2. LJ Figuera - Been a lot of speculation that he leaves early for the pros, he's already a red-shirt junior, if he continues to have a good year, he's probably at least expected to test the waters and see if he can at least be in the mix for a 2-way contract.

3. David Caraher - System seems to be a bad fit for him, his numbers are getting worse and playing time is going down every game. Hard to see him making the rotation next year with better guards coming in. I seen Paultzman mention that he could be close to having enough credits to graduate, if that's the case, I could see him looking to go play in a system that's better fit for him.

4. Jon McGriff - He's currently using a medial redshirt. With Posh and Dunn probably commanding most of the PG minutes next year, if he's not fully healthy or staff feels like he won't be able to compete for minutes, I could see him transferring out to a mid-major, in his situation he'd almost be guaranteed to get immediate eligibility at his next stop.

Everyone else I just can't see transferring. Sears would probably be next on the list, but he'd be a senior and his scholarship would open up the following year, so I don't see the staff asking him to leave, he seems happy with his role always energetic and never complaining, he's battled injuries, so I think he knows he's a guy that's never going to play a whole lot of minutes at the D1 level. I see him as probably the 12th or 13th man in rotation next year.


"at worst case he's good enough to be the 10th or 11th man in the rotation next year."

If you scroll up you'd see that I said the same thing:
"Who knows, maybe we can get both of them, and still keep Roberts as the 8th man off the bench. Hope he's happy with 8-10 per game."

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Vince Cole, SG, USC Salik JC (SJU Commit) 4 months 1 week ago #374438

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CMA TIME wrote: If you scroll up you'd see that I said the same thing:
"Who knows, maybe we can get both of them, and still keep Roberts as the 8th man off the bench. Hope he's happy with 8-10 per game."


Ah ok gotcha, we agree on that, I think Moore is going to be really good, he's a CMA type of big. If he's as good as advertised he should command most of the minutes at the 5 spot next year.

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